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TOPIC: Armstrong Whitworth Argosy

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 27 Nov 2018 20:41 #1

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was - Argosy-Transport/Bomber ?

In the mid-nineteen sixties I visited AWA Bitteswell and recall seeing Argosy,XN814 in a hangar.I was told that it had hard points for the carriage of 1000lb bombs.I have not heard any other reference to this since then-I thought I had imagined it until I came across this article!
docplayer.net/20744097-Royal-air-force-h...society-journal.html

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Last edit: by netcompsys.

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 27 Nov 2018 21:21 #2

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Back in the early days of the Red Arrows, the team referred to their support aircraft as the "Argy-bomber". How appropriately, I now realise.
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Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 00:17 #3

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Next time you make it to Kew you could try looking at this

AVIA 18/3288
Argosy C Mk1: assessment of modified T3 bombsight sighting head in supply aimer's position
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11052626

and
AVIA 18/3287
Argosy C Mk1: visual bombing role assessment
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11052625

and
AVIA 18/3283
Argosy C Mk1 aircraft: clearance of installation for carriage and release of 1000lb HE bombs, 20lb fragment bombs, 4.5 inch reconnaissance flares and 25lb practice bombs in internal security role
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11052621

and maybe
AVIA 18/3286
Argosy C Mk1: internal security role; photographic installation
discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11052624
kevin
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Last edit: by netcompsys.

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 05:11 #4

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I did a tour in Muharraq late 60s and on several occasions was called to carry out Flight Servicings (Armament) on an Argosy in transit. Since no Bomb Carriers or role equipment were installed the only applicable item on the inspection cards was a check of the bombsight which was IIRC accessed by lifting a panel in the centre fuselage aisle.

From the web:

In the internal-security fit in 1963 XN814 was modified to accommodate external bomb racks (for 14 bombs) on each side of the lower fuselage; the nose window was equipped as a bomb aimer's position. After successful trials with the "Argi-bomber" the aircraft used in Aden and the Far East were given this modification. There is no evidence that they were operationally used in this offensive role.
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Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 10:10 #5

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The things you find out, but I have to ask why? The Shackleton served in the bomber role in Aden and Borneo, so why give the Argosy a bomber role? Sounds to me like someones bright idea that should have been strangled at birth!

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Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 12:17 #6

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canberra wrote: The things you find out, but I have to ask why? The Shackleton served in the bomber role in Aden and Borneo, so why give the Argosy a bomber role? Sounds to me like someones bright idea that should have been strangled at birth!

The Shackleton was also used as a transport during Suez (1956) when it carried 26 odd troops at a time out to the Med. There was a discussion about this on the Blackbushe website about a year ago because they picked up Aldershot based troops at Blackbushe.
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Last edit: by TerryClark.

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 18:46 #7

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Does this need to be put into the context of the time? Was there a shortage of bombers coming up. Was this around the time the TSR2 was cancelled and the F-111 dropped and someone asked why should we buy more when we can stick some on any old aircraft?

Was this driven by Government - it sounds daft enough to be - or was it driven by the RAF? Or was the Argosy actually converted to prove how daft the idea was?

Just a thought - or two or three :)
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Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 28 Nov 2018 19:01 #8

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I have a copy (somewhere) of the A&AEE report (AVIA 18/3283) covering the carriage of 1000lb bombs on the Argosy. The bombs were carried on six fairings mounted on the lower chine of the fuselage (3 each side). The location of these fairings can be seen on the Argosy at the RAFM Cosford as the screw hole fixings and the electrical connectors are still fitted and visible to all.
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Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 29 Nov 2018 03:25 #9

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canberra wrote: The things you find out, but I have to ask why? The Shackleton served in the bomber role in Aden and Borneo, so why give the Argosy a bomber role? Sounds to me like someones bright idea that should have been strangled at birth!


I understand that the role was considered for counter-insurgency. Perhaps a fear of Scottish Independence.:)

EDIT:

discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11052621

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Last edit: by PETERTHEEATER. Reason: To add link

Armstrong Whitworth Argosy 29 Nov 2018 10:19 #10

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Slightly off topic, it wasnt just the Shackleton that could be used as a troop carrier. The Nimrod had an emergency trooping role, ever seen all the seats at the back end?

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