Having recently purchased a German aerial photo of Appledram taken in November 1943 It struck me that it would be good if this source airfield photgraphs were pulled together, either originals or decent copies. To my mind they show a lot of airfields in earlier states that are not always available form RAF sourced photographs. The Appledram one appears to show the airfield in between it's intial construction and further development ready for D-Day.
It would be interesting to see a list of all collections of these and what they hold. I always think it a shame that these things a filed away and probably never seen for decades. At around 12" square it shows a reasonable amount of detail.
I will be passing mine onto the archive so hopefully others will find it useful.
I wonder who owns the copyright on this? Third Reich Ltd?
Sources that I know of :
Nigel Clarke Publications
RCHMS
NARA
eBay!
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Who is TARA? I've tried "TARA photo" in Google Images: very interesting, but no aerial shots! (Go on- try it!)
I have long heard of the mythical "The germans had loads of photos of this place while it was being built" on every airfield I was posted to, but have yet to find this archive. I thought the yanks took it all? But where is it today? No one in Britain I have contacted has admitted to any Luftwaffe coverage when asked, which is a shame as it pre-dates what EH has. Anyone know?
Having recently purchased a German aerial photo of Appledram...
Methinks the key word in the above quoted fragment is "purchased". A quick google for Luftwaffe photographs turns up a million sites, but hardly any of the photographs are public domain - they all want money!
As for us Yanks taking them all - could be - we did take a lot! I'm now searching the Library of Congress as well as the Military History Institute's database - will let you know if I find anything...
It's me it was meant to to be NARA. I seem to remember (means it is probably an urban myth!) reading somewhere the the US National Archives hold a lot of captured German photos but finding them in uncatalogued collections is a nightmare. I think I will post the Appledram one at the weekend and to hell with the consequences.
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Gents,
TARA (The Aerial Reconnaissance Archive) was taken over by the Royal Commission on Ancient Historical Monuments Scotland last year- www.rcahms.gov.uk
The RCAHMS have to date published two books of wartime aerial pics of Scotland (one German, one British), and one of postwar British pics.
There's a bit about it on the latest news page.
The TARA photos, I understand, are mostly of targets in occupied Europe. They were supposed to be available on the "evidence in camera" but I could never figure out how to work the site. I think it will be a while before RCAHMS give access to the TARA stuff. Does anyone know if UK airfields are in the TARA collection?
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Spot on PNK! That is what I've always wanted to know. How can these archives be an asset if we can't access what is in them or know what is in them before we start?
A bit of information you chaps might find interesting, straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I had a discussion a few years back with the MOD who gave the following clarification about wartime photos:
I can advise that Crown copyright lasts for 50 years from the end of the year in which the material was first published. However, if you cannot be certain these photograph were published during that period they may still be in copyright as "unpublished material".
If the photographs are Crown Copyright and were taken before January 1957 then they are now out of Crown Copyright and may be used without obtaining our permission.
So basically, any photo taken by an on-duty member of the military during WWII would, technically, become Crown Copyright. Of course, personal snaps never get chased up, but if the Officer was taking a picture as an illustration or under orders, it belongs to the Crown.
"Published" photo's I understand to be those that were deemed safe to be seen and officially released by the MOD. We're talking the illustrative photos of aircraft which appeared in the press, etc. or those issues with an information label on the back. Sadly, aerial photo's rarely come under that category as they were squirrelled away for map making/intel and as such were never "published". Also many of the post war photos were taken for the Department of the Environment so I don't believe they come under Crown Copyright.
Then the real confusion comes - what if you posses (as I do) a few original 1940's press photo's issued by the Air Ministry. Technically that would make them out of copyright but oh no, the same photo happens to be in the IWM collection which is copyrighted. I don't know the answer to that one but if anyone knows, let me know.
As for German aerial photos, I believe they "belong" to the Bundesarchiv where a lot of military photos now reside.
As for obtaining original German recon photos. I believe the RAF Museum has a number or originals and also the Gloucestershire County Records Office which have quite a few for Gloucestershire. I posted on in the Staverton thread but I know they have ones covering Aschurch Camp, Filton and I believe Brockworth too.
So I could get a knock on the door for posting Appledram from the Bundesarchiv, or not!
The thing that annoys me is that my parents generation funded the people to take photos and now we have to pay to see something that we paid for!
I can understand covering the costs of copying and storage for safekeeping but it means that people actually interested in airfields rarely get a chance to use these photos because of the high cost and copyright laws. Luckily al lot of aerial photos are available online and for a mere £175 you can by a poor quality copy!
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
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