- Posts: 5843
- Thank you received: 567
- Forum
- Open Forum
- Miscellaneous Research Topics
- Research Material, Websites and Useful Links
- German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
- Paul Francis
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
07 Feb 2009 20:10 #11
by Paul Francis
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Replied by Paul Francis on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Yes I agrree, I think technically (and I may well be be wrong) if a picture was taken on behalf of the Crown, then after 50 years its out of copyright. BUT the likes of the Imperial War Museum and RAFM have possibly managed to get around this - how I dont know and I am not even sure its legal. For example some years ago I approached Ordnance Survey about copyright concerning airfield plans, drawn during WW2. I wanted to reproduce plans for a book and I asked the question. The answer was if the plans are more than 50 years old then yes I can. I then said that they came from the RAFM, they said no matter they are out of copyright! To be honest I am still unsure!
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Peter Kirk
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 12442
- Thank you received: 1029
07 Feb 2009 20:19 #12
by Peter Kirk
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Any lawyers around? I am sure this is the main reason that a lot of airfield histories don't show period plans or aerial photos of the airfield being described. How did Ivor Jones manage it in his trilogy?
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Paul Francis
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 5843
- Thank you received: 567
07 Feb 2009 20:21 #13
by Paul Francis
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Replied by Paul Francis on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Furthermore what really winds me up about the Imperial War Museum et al and their so-called claim to copyright is that there may well be more than one picture image in circulation which were originally Crown copyright, now there could be a copy in IWM, the RAFM and the Museum of London for example and each of these institiutions claims copyright. Now in my book if any of these has a right of copyright it should be one not all three and that is assuming even that each of these has a legitimate claim which if you beleave Crown Copyright neither has the right. More clarification is need. No institutution within the UK can possibly have a claim of copyright of a photo taken by the luftwaffe in or before WW2. Ownership of an image is not a right of copyright, its the original negatives that count.
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Peter Kirk
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 12442
- Thank you received: 1029
07 Feb 2009 20:56 #14
by Peter Kirk
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Now I seem to recall there was a government initiative to look at making things like the Ordnance Survey maps freely available maybe even copyright free. Anyone else heard anything like that or is it just wishful thinking? I don't read newspapers at all so it must has come from somewhere reliable.
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- The Crunchy Nutter
- Offline
- New Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 10
- Thank you received: 0
07 Feb 2009 20:56 #15
by The Crunchy Nutter
Justin Buckley
http://thecrunchynutter-memorials.blogspot.com/
Replied by The Crunchy Nutter on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Just lifted this from Wikipedia:
The key factor in determining whether Crown copyright photos can be reproduced after all this time seems to be whether or not they have been published.
(Emphasis in bold is mine)The duration of Crown copyright varies depending whether material is published or unpublished. Unpublished material was originally subject to copyright protection in perpetuity. However, the 1988 Act removed this concept from British law. Transitional provisions apply for 50 years after the entry into force of the 1988 Act which mean that no unpublished material will lose its copyright protection until January 1, 2040. New Crown copyright material that is unpublished has copyright protection for 125 years from date of creation. Published Crown copyright material has protection for 50 years from date
The key factor in determining whether Crown copyright photos can be reproduced after all this time seems to be whether or not they have been published.
Justin Buckley
http://thecrunchynutter-memorials.blogspot.com/
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Paul Francis
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 5843
- Thank you received: 567
07 Feb 2009 21:35 #16
by Paul Francis
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Replied by Paul Francis on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
We are not talking about published or un-published written data, we are refering to photographs and maps and the 50 years still stands. The question is whether museums such as IWM etc have a claim on expired copyright for photographs.
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- OneEighthBit
-
- Offline
- Elite Member
-
Less
More
- Posts: 795
- Thank you received: 13
07 Feb 2009 22:33 #17
by OneEighthBit
Replied by OneEighthBit on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
I think it still stands for photosgraphy as is what the MOD explained to me. A photography is only "published" if the RAF released it for general use, especially in the public. For example, there was a series of 5 photographs taken at an airfield by the RAF which I have, of which only 4 were released for press use (and have been widely used in publications). When I enquired about copyright I was told only the 4 published were free of copyright, the 5th, was not and therefore the 50 year rule didn't apply.
If anyone wants to make further enquiries the two address's I had contact with were:
Ministry of Defence, Directorate of Intellectual Property Rights - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Information Policy Adviser, Office of Public Sector Information - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I did try to press them on the issue of the IWM's claim of copyright but they shut up and never replied. I do know however that it is entirely possible, and legal, for the ownership of copyright to be transferred and it's possible this was done (which is a bloody shame if you ask me).
If anyone wants to make further enquiries the two address's I had contact with were:
Ministry of Defence, Directorate of Intellectual Property Rights - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Information Policy Adviser, Office of Public Sector Information - This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
I did try to press them on the issue of the IWM's claim of copyright but they shut up and never replied. I do know however that it is entirely possible, and legal, for the ownership of copyright to be transferred and it's possible this was done (which is a bloody shame if you ask me).
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Paul Francis
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 5843
- Thank you received: 567
08 Feb 2009 09:22 #18
by Paul Francis
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Replied by Paul Francis on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Well I made a similar enquiry in 2003, regarding a batch of unpublished photos of Thurleigh / Twinwood Farm and I was told quite clearly, that if they are over 50 years old then acknowledgement is not required as copyright is not valid and if under copyright then I have permission to use them but they have to choose the wording that goes with each photo regarding copyright.
How can it be known whether a photo has been published or not? Is there some person in London logging every photo that is crown copyright and noting whether its been published or not. It cannot be done.
What we need is a difinitive answer to this as clearly we have all been told different versions and I would also welcome clarification as to whether IWM have a copyright claim on pictures that are more than 50 years old whether published or un-published. And if they do then why?
How can it be known whether a photo has been published or not? Is there some person in London logging every photo that is crown copyright and noting whether its been published or not. It cannot be done.
What we need is a difinitive answer to this as clearly we have all been told different versions and I would also welcome clarification as to whether IWM have a copyright claim on pictures that are more than 50 years old whether published or un-published. And if they do then why?
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Paul Francis
-
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 5843
- Thank you received: 567
08 Feb 2009 12:55 #19
by Paul Francis
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Replied by Paul Francis on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
One8thBit, in hindsight I actually think you are right on this one, and I was given incorrect advice, however it would be good to get to the bottom of it.
You can tell a builder from an archaeologist by the size of his trowel. Mine is a small one!
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Peter Kirk
-
Topic Author
- Offline
- Moderator
-
Less
More
- Posts: 12442
- Thank you received: 1029
08 Feb 2009 15:21 #20
by Peter Kirk
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Replied by Peter Kirk on topic German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
I don't know what the setup is for the IWM and RAFM but could it be that they are not Government run and therefore write their own rules?
No Amount Of Evidence Will Ever Persuade An Idiot (probably not Mark Twain)
Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.
- Forum
- Open Forum
- Miscellaneous Research Topics
- Research Material, Websites and Useful Links
- German Luftwaffe Aerial Photographs
Time to create page: 0.046 seconds
